Current /tg/ thread, as long as it doesn't get deleted: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/21849132

Mostly cosmetic and a few position changes. Check the wiki, it's all up-to-date.

So my Labtop's Charger shorted out about a month ago and my replacement finally came, has there been any changes to the team?

I'm almost certain that this is the last version of the faces: http://implyingrigged.com/index.php?title=/tg/#Faces_and_Uniforms If anyone has any complaints, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Someone in /vg/ was asking for a save with "nigramarines being 205 cm or shorter because PES Edit is a piece of ♥♥♥♥." Here is the save file: http://www.4shared.com/file/7kVKDoCn/TM_EXPORT12.html

It also includes some of our new faces, which I've also put on the Roster talk page, so we can discuss it there.

I've been incerdibly busy with real life stuff, so no testing from me yet.

Won't have time for this coming friendly, but will do for next one. Also, check the talk page for the roster, I put some stuff up there.

just an idea, you could test out the bronze positions. specifically, whether they have a bigger impact up front or on the d-line

So, I propose all fluff discussion be moved to the wiki talk pages.

I've got finals this week (summer quarter hurr), but I'll try to run some meaningful tests (not hieght/weight BS). Anyone need me to run anything specific?

No moderators have weighed in on that. I didn't actually see many people complaining on /tg/ about it.

another friendly against /d/. also, anyone know if the 4chan cup generals will be migrating to /q/?

just scheduled our first friendly, aug 19th 19:40 against /x/

I've had the LMF and RMF from these positions ( http://i50.tinypic.com/33bpcf9.png ) get goals and assits, you can check my records. The AMF still scores a lot of goals, and the SS, being Silver, also does. The regular CF also occasionally gets some shots off.

okay so, as to boots, considering that no one aside from doomrider/creed/los tiburon ever shoots the ball, i'm thinking it would be a good idea to give everyone else (defenders + midfielders) max speed/acc boots.

But you erased the BEST comment! It was just a link to this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0uBU5ddX4U

posted in the Autumn Cup talk, also sorry SpessMahreen i deleted one of your comments by accident

Also: http://implyingrigged.com/index.php?title=Talk:2012_4chan_Autumn_Babby_Cup_Friendlies and http://implyingrigged.com/index.php?title=FLGS_Cup

I hope TheDM is on top of this stuff.

I can agree. While winning is certainly a plus, we don't need to be That Guy. Keep it on the sane side.

So, after running 10 tests of Huge Def versus Regular, the score is even, at 5-5. At this point, I will posit that size only offers a miserly advantage: enough if your entire team is huge, but not enough to consider a Big Deal for one or two players. I'll keep running some more tests (huge offense versus average), but I want to tentatively say that we should go with flavor for this one. I know we're supposed to be minmaxing this, but I can't bring myself to recommend that we make all our players huge. Just make the space marines, mechs, and Bearington big: not for advantage, but for fluff.

Yeah most of the current cards are bad. Creed's don't fit his (current) position well, etc. etc. I've been trying out some different stuff.

So a friend brought to my attention that a couple of Creed's card might be counter-productive. Trickster and Longranger might be working cross purpose.

Might be worthwhile to test two teams which are identical except for one huge goalie

Everyone was huge, even the players on the bench. (Which, now that I think about it, is extrenuous.) The huge goalie is still stopping goals, though.

Did you also make the goalie huge? People seem convinced that huge goalies, in specific, are unresponsive.

After running 10 games for pennance, the large team won 8 of them. There's still an advantage to being huge, but it may indeed be primarily defensive.

Breaking news: I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ Up Good. I had the average team playing out of position in the tests I was running. That accounts for their underpeformance. Disregard everything I said previously until I re-run new tests. ♥♥♥♥♥ in mouth, etc etc.

Suspected reason for my positions being rearranged is PES Editor, not my incompetence. Suspected reason for me not noticing earlier is my incompetence.

You're going to have to either add all of us as collaborators on the doc, or edit the share settings to let "anyone with the link" to view it (I did the latter).

As to what I did for "average" team is I took /a/ and /b/ (to simplify naming: team A and B), made everyone 184/79/right foot/WEPES/20years/Netherlands (there's a copy option in PES to make this easy once you have the first clone), and ended up with a team of 19 "regular" clones, and 4 prestige players who are still otherwise clones. Gave everyone a different number at the end of their name so I can tell them apart.

No skill cards, same tactics (posessison game, or P2 as I abbreviate it), green conditioning. This lets me alter only one thing, and see if it is better than the unaltered version.

The idea is that getting a good handle on each variable will let us know which value to use for each one to get the best result. It'll get more complicated when testing positions/tactics, but I think it's doable.

For picking teams to test against, I noticed that most competition either use a 4-4-2, a 4-3-3, or something completely off the wall. So for today I mainly played against 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 to try and get a handle on how the formation works against an average team. Not sure how effective that's going to turn out to be as a testing methodology as there really is no "average" 4chan cup team.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnbfxWfNEMMadFdaZlVwOXpDUTZ5MnpaX3pfQzVyUUE#gid=0

Took your advice for documenting with google docs. New batch of gold CAM testing, this time with a high 4-4-2.

@Gladgar I'm putting all my results in the google doc I linked earlier. Easier to share with you guys and the data's still there even if I disconned or something (unless Google ♥♥♥♥♥ up).

Whoops, that's longer legs and LONGER running animations

Lost all my documentation to a BSOD, but I can vouch for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ players performing better at CB than identically-statted middling height players. TBH, I think the whole "big players go slower" theory is just optical illusion due to the longer legs/shorter running animations.

As to the "Players to Join Attack" setting, it's only available for backs and it only applies to set pieces. Right now I have two ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CBs, one of them Bronze, and I'm experimenting with sending either and both forward. I don't think both is a good idea as it is VERY easy for the other team to counter quickly off a set piece, which is also why I'm hesitant on sending the Bronze forward (especially if he's marking a gold striker).

After testing Huge versus Average team, the Huge team had a decsive advantage. Uncertain if size helps offensively or defensively (of both), but it certainly warrants more investigation.

Zecro: Yeah, I scan them for useful information.

If other people are going to drop info for us, we might as well use it.

From the few test I've run, Creed and Doomrider have been able to pass defenders more easily wearing the Geometra (Though this might be due to the defenders having poor conditioning. I don't have a working usb controller I can use to check).

Frollo, you're quoting from the /vg/ threads, right? What do you guys want me to test first, by the way? It takes just about five minutes to run a test once I've set it up, and the results will be on the google doc I posted earlier.

"I've run some tests in regard to shoes. While they weren't extremely exhaustive the results were relatively equal between the default Wepes Classic and the Adidas Adipure with a slight advantage for the Classic."

or now I suggest everyone use the Geometra K-leather as a default (it boost accuracy and swerve). When we start irioning out formations and tactics, is when we should start giving individual players specific shoes.

There is apparently a setting that allows your LB/RB to be offensively active.

"There is the set piece setting: "Players to join attack". High defensive line, high position switch, high player support, etc would all help get defenders on the attack."

"Actually, you'll often see your LB/RB attacking all the way up the wings and even making assists, sometimes shooting during a normal play"

"For example, /hoc/ was in on almost every /sp/ attack in the knockouts when I had him set to join attack compared to how he and long throws did relatively little in the group stages"

The height weight stuff was definitely not tested, just the impressions from a few of the managers.

Prepare your butts: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsF2TmJd9X2MdExIRVRSNzM4WS1DMHB2VnJfalpxOHc

I'm almost absolutely certain that the height/weight stuff hasn't been rigorously tested.

we should also probably look into shoes.

Here's another thing to think about: preferred foot. I think most players are right-footed, with a few exceptions. Do we want players on the left part of the field to be left-footed?

"I think central defenders get the most out of tall/heavy, while wings and wing backs get the most out of being small/light. Forwards can go either way, but I opted for the tall/heavy approach - the power forward. But small forwards can work too, they just work differently."

"Either way, height and weight both affect only a few things. More of either height or weight gives you more balance - helps you resist tackles and keep your feet, as well as improves your ability to lay tackles. While less height and wait gives you more agility - not raw speed, but ability to turn and change direction quickly. Plus, of course, height helps with winning headers, and should give a goalkeeper more reach."

"I think a small forward works better against a team with low pressing or high defensive line where they won't get pressured as much and be able to move through quickly. Where as a larger forward works on the opposite, helps them not be tackled, and keep the ball in the box."

A few comments regarding height/weight I picked up from the /vg/ threads:

"The larger you are the lower your agility and speed (relatively), but improve shot power and balance (I think that's the stat that essentially effects how hard you are to take down). Also, I wonder if being larger makes your stamina run out quicker? I believe we saw something like this with large goalies being less responsive in general.

Smaller players are better forwards, faster/more agile, being able to move through traffic. AMFs, CFs, WFs and SSs
Medium Players would make good defenders, not so slow that forwards run all over them, and large enough to win some headers. LMF/RMFs also fit here and goalies
Large players probably make good DMF/CMFs, controlling the midfield and winning goal kicks, also able to move forward for headers off corners. The only drawback being slower movement back to defence."

Where we're going, we don't need roads: http://i50.tinypic.com/33bpcf9.png

Testing protip: Get Kitserver. Set it up. Run its config.exe. Set game speed to 2.50. Are you going fast enough yet?

When I run enough tests to establish basline variation, I'll start testing with variations in other stuff.

Interesting tidbit: If a player has more than one position, he will not be as good in a position that is not his primary as a player with only a single position assigned. I.e. a regular player will be a 58* LB, but a jack-of-all-trades regular with CF primary will be a 53* LB. His GK will also be only 50* instead of 60*.

God, I should go to bed. Having considered the names a bit, I posit we change "ANAL CIRCUM" to "ANAL CIRCUMF." with the period "EMPRAH" to "THA EMPRAH"and NIGRAMARINES!" to just "NIGRAMARINES" without the exclamation mark, written out "Nigramarines" without all caps on.

Next time (and this goes for everyone) please post the image so that it shows the players' position (CF, SS, AMF, etc). Also, I myself find Stadard tactics to be far more flexible, although I want to test the effecitveness of each of those bars, myself.

http://i.imgur.com/DsXjo.jpg

That's a 4-1-3-2 with Gold (Creed) at attacking midfielder, Silver (Doomrider) at SS, Bronze (Tiburon) and Bronze (Nigra) at center back.

Worked well in the limited testing I did (beat /sp/ 1-0 and /m/ 5-3). We have a lot less giveaways in the midfield with Creed handling the ball. He's touching the ball a lot more than he was at CF, and he's scoring the same amount of goals (Doomrider's production might drop, have to sim more). Changed the cards around too but I forget exactly what I did.

Having a Bronze on the defensive line helps a lot too. I turned Nigramarines back into the afro-clad black goliath he once was and set him to come forward for corners, and he's buried a couple so far. On your point about height/weight, Spess, I'm not sure if Nigra's actually winning more headers than he was, but I'm inclined to say it's making a pretty large difference. Hilarious when Nigra went against Messi.

Obviously have to test more later.

I'll be getting around to testing if Height/Weight has anything to do with anything. Partly because some of our players SHOULD be huge and tall (and some should be tiny), and I want to see if it does anything or not.